Submitted by Republibot 3.0 on Wed, 03/17/2010 - 01:00
Generally we focus on cool stuff that the good guys anticipated - or simply yearned for - in the future. But bad guys have dreams, too, you know, and sooner or later we were bound to come across one.
"Atlantropia" was an impressively crazy project thought up by Herman Sörgel in the 1920s. In essence, he wanted to dam off the Straights of Gibraltar, and partially drain the Mediterranean Sea, thereby opening up lots of new lands for farming and colonization, and use hydroelectric power for Europe.
Interbellum Europe wasn't interested. Despite being a pacifist, when the Nazis took power, he attempted to 'Nazify' the concept and pitch it to them, but really they weren't interested either. After WWII, Herman attempted to pitch his idea literally until his dying day - he was hit by a car, while on his way to a conference to give a speech on Atlantropia.
This idea has had more life in SF than it ever did in reality. Philip K. Dick mentions it as a Nazi post-war project after they won World War II in "The Man in the High Castle." Gene Roddenberry (or, more likely, whomever ghost-wrote the Star Trek:TMP novelization for him) starts the book out with Kirk visiting Atlantropia, and marveling at the dam.
Here's a presentation. It's slow, but the good stuff starts about a minute in
Whatever happens in the upcoming global warming/cooling events, we will surely get new good areas to live as old areas are rendered obsolete, we just have to deal with stubborn resistance to change.
Agreed. There's really nothing more reactionary than environmentalism. <G>
I was reading where some divers were checking out a sinkhole down in Florida, around Miami or something, they were down like six hundred feet or so, and started finding lots and lots of human skeletons, spearheads, stone knives, etc.
Archaeologists eventually determined that the prehistoric indians in the region had used these caves as crypts for their dead, back when they were above the water level in the midst of the last ice age, when ocean levels were about 600 feet lower than they are now. So, yeah, it's always changing, and it's always been changing. I have no doubt there were lots of people living on what's now the bottom of the Med.
The modern theory of the flood story in the bible is that it came from Babylon and was a memory of when the Mediterranean broke through the Bosphorus and flooded the Black Sea plain. They have found submerged villages in the area in the last few years that date back 12,000 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosporus
I didn't watch any of the clips above, so I don't know if I'm being redundant, but many historians agree that back in pre-history when the water level worldwide was much lower, quite a lot of the population in Europe was situated down the slopes and lowlands of the Mediterranean area before there was as much water there, and is lost under the sea now in sites impossible to investigate. And of course when ocean levels rose and broke through Gibraltar that this could easily be the biblical reference to the great flood which would have wiped out a large amount of civilization down there. So this dry basin idea is not really new, but is an old model of trying to restore the way it once was.
Mankind has always lived in "transition" areas, like oceanfront, river mouths and forks, lakes, valleys, etc. of which are easily lost to environment changes over time. For example, there are old Egyptian references to towns on the coast that are now miles inland due to silt deposits from the Nile building up. Whatever happens in the upcoming global warming/cooling events, we will surely get new good areas to live as old areas are rendered obsolete, we just have to deal with stubborn resistance to change.
Huh. That must be some kind of in-joke, since thy synopsis makes no references to Herrman Sorgel's inherent Herrman Sorgelness:
The main protagonist and narrator is Hermann Sörgel, a self-described devotee of Shakespeare. After giving a short list of works that he has written on Shakespeare, he tells the story of how he came to be in possession of Shakespeare's Memory: He meets a man named Daniel Thorpe at a Shakespeare conference, and after relating a story about a ring that had a price so high it could never be sold. Thorpe then offers Sörgel Shakespeare's memory, and after a short retelling of how he managed to get hold of it, passes it on to him. The memory, Thorpe says, has to be 'discovered': Sörgel whistles melodies he has never heard, and slowly starts seeing unknown faces in his dreams. Later, he gains insights into Shakespeare's works and techniques, and considers but decides against writing a biography. Soon after, Shakespeare's memory almost overwhelms his own: one day he becomes confused as he does not recognise engines and cars. Finally he decides to give away the memory by telephone: he phones random numbers (sparing women and children from the memory), and at last gives the memory to a man on the other end of the phone.
Lemme know if you ever crack that one. It's interesting, but I wouldn't even begin to know where to start.
Unrelated to any of that, I've always found "Herrmann" to be a very odd name. It translates to English as "Mister Man." How the heck did that one ever get off the ground, "Hi there, I'm Gary Schneider, and that's my sister, Sally Schneider, and that's our brother Mister Man Schneider. Mom and dad were going through a bad patch in their marriage when he was born. Our other brother, 'Keep Your Filthy Hands Off Me Schneider' was killed in the war..."
Hermann Sorgel must have meant something to Jorge Luis Borges: the protagonist of Borges' last short story ("Shakespeare's Memory") is named after him.
Oh, no doubt. Added to which it would create *TWO* meds: there's a high rise of land running from the heel of Italy to North Africa which would be above water, though probably he couldn't have known that.
This idea looks like an ecological disaster in the making the salinity of the ocean would increase the new shore would be a salt marsh and the effect on the tectonics of the area is unknowable. A bad idea all the way around I can see why no one liked this idea.
neorandomizer wife seems to have took a step forward today but a half of a step back so her condition is about the same. It's damn hot here! 1 day ago
neorandomizer Already 95 deg in Vegas and it's not 10 yet. Off I go to see wife hope she has some improvement. 1 day ago
Republibot 3.0 I'm really sorry to hear that. She's in our prayers. 2 days ago
neorandomizer @Republibot 3.0 The wife is still in icu and seems to be just treading water. 2 days ago
Republibot 3.0 Yeah? What's up? 3 days ago
neorandomizer All things being equal I can go for a cosmic reboot. 3 days ago
Republibot 3.0 but he has no other genre credits." It seemed like a cool idea to me. 4 days ago
Republibot 3.0 If we were interviewing James "Scotty" Doohan, we'd say say "He played on Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea and Space Academy, 4 days ago
Republibot 3.0 The concept was, "Hey, let's pretend Trek didn't exist, and just cover the rest of the genre." 4 days ago
jkirton2 Gonna take a few minutes to look around. 5 days ago
jkirton2 @Republibot 2.0 Will do 5 days ago
Republibot 3.0 » Jake Was Here "Jake Was Here" has been a member of our little blog family for exactly one year and three hours. THREE HOURS! 5 days ago
Republibot 2.0 @jkirton2 Welcome, John--- make yourself at home! 5 days ago
jkirton2 Reading Republibot for the FIRST time online! Yeah, go figure! 5 days ago
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Comments
27 December 2008
10 min 14 sec
Whatever happens in the upcoming global warming/cooling events, we will surely get new good areas to live as old areas are rendered obsolete, we just have to deal with stubborn resistance to change.
Agreed. There's really nothing more reactionary than environmentalism. <G>
I was reading where some divers were checking out a sinkhole down in Florida, around Miami or something, they were down like six hundred feet or so, and started finding lots and lots of human skeletons, spearheads, stone knives, etc.
Archaeologists eventually determined that the prehistoric indians in the region had used these caves as crypts for their dead, back when they were above the water level in the midst of the last ice age, when ocean levels were about 600 feet lower than they are now. So, yeah, it's always changing, and it's always been changing. I have no doubt there were lots of people living on what's now the bottom of the Med.
27 June 2009
7 hours 17 min
The modern theory of the flood story in the bible is that it came from Babylon and was a memory of when the Mediterranean broke through the Bosphorus and flooded the Black Sea plain. They have found submerged villages in the area in the last few years that date back 12,000 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosporus
1 June 2009
15 hours 21 min
I didn't watch any of the clips above, so I don't know if I'm being redundant, but many historians agree that back in pre-history when the water level worldwide was much lower, quite a lot of the population in Europe was situated down the slopes and lowlands of the Mediterranean area before there was as much water there, and is lost under the sea now in sites impossible to investigate. And of course when ocean levels rose and broke through Gibraltar that this could easily be the biblical reference to the great flood which would have wiped out a large amount of civilization down there. So this dry basin idea is not really new, but is an old model of trying to restore the way it once was.
Mankind has always lived in "transition" areas, like oceanfront, river mouths and forks, lakes, valleys, etc. of which are easily lost to environment changes over time. For example, there are old Egyptian references to towns on the coast that are now miles inland due to silt deposits from the Nile building up. Whatever happens in the upcoming global warming/cooling events, we will surely get new good areas to live as old areas are rendered obsolete, we just have to deal with stubborn resistance to change.
27 December 2008
10 min 14 sec
Huh. That must be some kind of in-joke, since thy synopsis makes no references to Herrman Sorgel's inherent Herrman Sorgelness:
The main protagonist and narrator is Hermann Sörgel, a self-described devotee of Shakespeare. After giving a short list of works that he has written on Shakespeare, he tells the story of how he came to be in possession of Shakespeare's Memory: He meets a man named Daniel Thorpe at a Shakespeare conference, and after relating a story about a ring that had a price so high it could never be sold. Thorpe then offers Sörgel Shakespeare's memory, and after a short retelling of how he managed to get hold of it, passes it on to him. The memory, Thorpe says, has to be 'discovered': Sörgel whistles melodies he has never heard, and slowly starts seeing unknown faces in his dreams. Later, he gains insights into Shakespeare's works and techniques, and considers but decides against writing a biography. Soon after, Shakespeare's memory almost overwhelms his own: one day he becomes confused as he does not recognise engines and cars. Finally he decides to give away the memory by telephone: he phones random numbers (sparing women and children from the memory), and at last gives the memory to a man on the other end of the phone.
Lemme know if you ever crack that one. It's interesting, but I wouldn't even begin to know where to start.
Unrelated to any of that, I've always found "Herrmann" to be a very odd name. It translates to English as "Mister Man." How the heck did that one ever get off the ground, "Hi there, I'm Gary Schneider, and that's my sister, Sally Schneider, and that's our brother Mister Man Schneider. Mom and dad were going through a bad patch in their marriage when he was born. Our other brother, 'Keep Your Filthy Hands Off Me Schneider' was killed in the war..."
24 July 2009
16 hours 12 min
Hermann Sorgel must have meant something to Jorge Luis Borges: the protagonist of Borges' last short story ("Shakespeare's Memory") is named after him.
27 December 2008
10 min 14 sec
Oh, no doubt. Added to which it would create *TWO* meds: there's a high rise of land running from the heel of Italy to North Africa which would be above water, though probably he couldn't have known that.
27 June 2009
7 hours 17 min
This idea looks like an ecological disaster in the making the salinity of the ocean would increase the new shore would be a salt marsh and the effect on the tectonics of the area is unknowable. A bad idea all the way around I can see why no one liked this idea.