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RETROSPECULATIVE TV: Battlestar Galactica (1978): “Saga of a Star World” (Episode 1) Chapter 2

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[CONTINUED FROM CHAPTER 1, YESTERDAY]

Way far off in space, fleet of 220 civilian ships assembles under the protection of the Galactica. They never expressly say, but given the deliberately Biblical references in these proceedings, I think we’re supposed to believe that there are three million human survivors in the fleet, total. That’s how many Israelites escaped Egypt.

Adama orders each ship to send a representative - Serina is evidently the representative from the Rising Star cruise liner - and he explains his plan: “Our sacred texts tell of a mother world that sent out colonies into the universe. They also tell of a sister world, far away from our home colonies.”
Serina: “This other world - where is it, and what is it called?”
Adama: “I wish that I could tell you precisely where it is, I only know that it lies far beyond our star system, and beyond the reach of the Cylons, and that it is called ‘Earth.’”
Everyone says “Earth” as though they’re trying it out for the first time.

Ok, hold for a sec:

Just for a reality check, let’s put this in cold war terms: The Colonies are obviously the US, and the automatonic Cylons are obviously the Soviets (so obviously so that the Soviet Union issued a formal complaint about the show!), and the Galactica is obviously a Nimitz class carrier (Top of the line in the day). The Cylon sneak attack is obviously an analogue for a pre-emptive nuclear strike on the US. This leaves one aircraft carrier and a couple hundred civilian ships as all that survives of our country. So the civilians go to ask the captain of the ‘Carrier “Hey, what do we do now.”
“Well,” the captain says, “We’re going to try to find the Lost Continent of Atlantis, and live happily ever after there.”

Whaaaaaa….?

In essence, that’s what Adama just told them, and yet they sign off on it. That seems a bit much for me, a bit too easy. It’s also interesting that most of the crowd seems not to have heard of this “Earth” before. I mean, it’s in their freakin’ Bible fer’ gosh sakes!

Anyway, back to the story:

Starbuck barges in on Athena while she’s changing (Again: Yum!) and tries to apologize. Clearly shaken by what’s happened, he tells her he wants to get serious, and they need to build a future for themselves. Athena - clearly still in shock from the busy morning - says “Starbuck, I don’t want to care about anybody, especially you.” Clearly hurt, Starbuck leaves.

The fleet runs, and the situation quickly goes from bad to worse. Starbuck and Boomer are running around making lists of survivors, and they get press ganged by Apollo into helping him check for dangerous chemical leaks on the ships.
Starbuck: “Apollo…”
Apollo: [Scowls]
Starbuck: “Captain, that stuff is dangerous! Half of these tubs shouldn’t even be flying!”
Apollo: “Well there really wasn’t much choice, now was there? How many people did we have to leave behind for lack of ships?” (these scenes appear to have been filmed in the engine rooms of actual large ships. They’re interestingly gritty and realistic looking. Curiously, Galactica never used this fairly practical trick again.)

Below decks on a Container ship, they find hoards of starving people on the edge of panic. They’re screaming for water and food, but mostly water. They say that no one’s checked on them in three days. Several ask frantically if they’ve been left behind. A lot of people are very clearly injured or sick, some of whom speak other languages. They’re just on the edge of rioting. Again: powerful scene. One of them tells Apollo, “It’s a sin to starve us while the beauroticians live in luxury.”
Apollo: “No one is in luxury, I can assure you that.”
Another man: “No, you lie. I’ve seen it. I saw it with my own eyes on the Rising Star, before I was cast out and sent here among the borays of humanity.” (The Borays will turn up later in the series.) Apollo gives his word that he’ll help them out, and people laugh derisively.

Starbuck, meanwhile, has encountered a hooker with a heart of gold and a busted wing. “Cassiopeia” (Laurette Spang) was a high-priced call girl who got her arm broken in the attack. When Starbuck tries to help her, she just brushes him off because there are others in far worse shape than her, and she seems genuinely concerned for an elderly couple who feverish. A woman starts abusively insulting her, and Starbuck decides to get her

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Republibot 3.0
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Sorry for the delay

Sorry for the delay, Scorpius

>>>Read up on it a bit. (Edit: That means *I* read up on it, not that I'm urging you to do so.) It seems to have actually been just a type of Waco incident, only less bloody.<<<

Well, reasonably cool heads ended up prevailing, but I do think it had the potential to become far, far bloodier, which is why the government took it very seriously. They were shipping Special Forces troops back from Vietnam to North Dakota to contain the situation if it really went south.

>>I don't really understand the relationship between the government and the indigenous peoples in the US. Apparently, there are still treaties in force, which implies mutual recognition, which implies a degree of independence. But surely they're not *actually* independent in any real sense? On the other hand, in films FBI agents need special permission to enter reservation territory or people cross into reservations to buy alcohol because it's not legal where they live (that in itself is very strange too). <<<

There's not really one uniform way of dealing with 'em, as far as I'm aware. They inhabit a grey semiautonomous area, where they can do more-or-less what they want on the reservations, where they live in abject squalor, and hence are encouraged to move off the Rez into larger society and assimilate. But the US has different treaties with all of them, and in one case, no real treaties at all.
I don't know the situation now, but in the '80s, the Sioux were trying for legal representation in the UN as a soverign microstate.

>>>Anyhow, not meaning to hijack a thread. I've never seen the original Galactica, but I have heard ... uncomplimentary ... opinions on it. It's interesting to read about it from another perspective. Hope you keep it up.<<<

Nah, that's cool. I'm going to do the whole series, I just wrote up the sixth story review today. THe series starts off VERY good, then becomes very uneven around the 6th hour, and is rather scattershot after that, but it never completely falls apart, even though they're clearly running out of story ideas towards the end. The first five hours are genuinely worth watching, however.

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Russel Means

Yeah, well, law is whatever lawyers agree it is, which is so flexible as to be nonexistent, so we'll just ignore that for now. But, yeah, the Sioux have been very active in their attempts to gain more autonomy and occasional independence.

I actually used to know a lot about it, but I've forgotten most in the last quarter century, and what I do recall is probably horribly out of date. I did get to hang out with Russel Means for a weekend when he was running for president in 1988, however.

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Independent Republic of Lakota

Man, Wikipedia is dangerously infinite. I've now spent hours reading about First Nations in North America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Lakotah

These guys have apparently officially declared their independence and are actively pursuing recognition from other countries. Apparently they have some legal basis for doing so.

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@Scorpious

The recognized tribes and there reservations are sovereign in the same way but I believe to a greater extent as each state in the union. They have the right to self government have there own police forces and laws. They are ‘domestic dependent nations’ and there status is controlled by the US Constitution and federal law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribal_sovereignty_in_the_United_States

Each state usually has agreements with tribes with reservations in there state. I know here in Nevada the state government has an agreement with the Paiute tribe in regards to sales tax on liquor and cigarettes sold in there store in Las Vegas. There is a small enclave inside the city limits that is part of the reservation and for years they did not charge sales tax or state cigarette tax at the ‘Tribal Smoke Shop’ as the store is called.

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No civil war

Read up on it a bit. (Edit: That means *I* read up on it, not that I'm urging you to do so.) It seems to have actually been just a type of Waco incident, only less bloody.

Not sure whether I'm disappointed. The phrase "Sioux uprising" conjures up a lot of excitement. In the end, a standoff (what's more, one that's peacefully resolved in the end) is much less thrilling.--Though I'm sure the lack of escalation was fortunate for the people involved.

I don't really understand the relationship between the government and the indigenous peoples in the US. Apparently, there are still treaties in force, which implies mutual recognition, which implies a degree of independence. But surely they're not *actually* independent in any real sense? On the other hand, in films FBI agents need special permission to enter reservation territory or people cross into reservations to buy alcohol because it's not legal where they live (that in itself is very strange too).

Anyhow, not meaning to hijack a thread. I've never seen the original Galactica, but I have heard ... uncomplimentary ... opinions on it. It's interesting to read about it from another perspective. Hope you keep it up.

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Sioux Indian Uprising

Probably not. Civil Wars generally involve fairly large uprisings, between sections of the same country, or very large groups within a country, there's usually at least some legal recognition for the rebels (For instance, the southern states were all duely elected, and the Confederate Government was democratically elected.)

Wounded Knee didn't really have any of that, though more than a million rounds of amuntion were fired. The whole thing lasted 71 days, but there were only two deaths and three casualties, since nearly all the combatants on both sides were Special Forces, and I really don't think they actually *wanted* to kill each other.

I once met a guy who was there, but I didn't really have the opportunity to ask about it.

Details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_incident

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Scorpious
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wikipedia

>>What really cracked me up was that they've got the cold war listed on there as "World War III." <<

Yah, I wondered about that too. I wasn't studying any of the entries in close detail, but that one did stick out to me.

PS: I had no idea there was a Sioux uprising in 1973. That's fascinating :-)
--Would that be considered a civil war?

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My Crappy Band vs. World War III

>>>I think it's a bit misleading to leave out the huge amount of 20th-century wars. Granted, some of them were pretty minor or didn't make much of a splash, but to say they didn't happen is not very rigorous.<<<

I wasn't leaving them out so much as I was deliberately ignoring them.

No, in actual fact I'm just not sure how to tabulate some of those. I mean, does Grenada count as a war? Panama? Probably not in either case. Does our military advisors during the Nicaraguan and El Salvadoran civil wars count as "War?" I mean, on the one hand, maybe, in that they were wars and we were there, but on the other hand, we were basically only providing technical support and training. (Mostly in Ft. Benning, GA) We never had any significant numbers on the ground. We never led any battles. Could our involvement in Somalia even be considered a war? I mean, on the one hand, yeah, guns, uniforms, people dying: all the tropes, but on the other hand there's *no* local government, it's open slaughter of Somalis on Somalis every day, and when we leave the situation gets worse and worse and worse. That's more like cops in a bad neighborhood than a traditional war.

Also, I note they left out the indian wars in general, and the Sioux uprising at Wounded Knee in 1973.

What really cracked me up was that they've got the cold war listed on there as "World War III." What, I can't get wiki to leave up a page about my crappy band ("Republibot 3.0 and the Republibot 3.0 Orchestra, featuring Republibot 3.0"), but someone can just pretend World War III actually happened? Sheesh.

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Gulf War II: Electric Boogaloo

>>>In my humble opinion the 2003 invasion of Iraq was the right war for the wrong reasons and at the wrong time. We should have taken him down in ’91 but Bush the elder got spooked by a Shiite Iraq. <<<

Elder Bush said he didn't go in becuase Saddam would go to ground, and they'd never find him, and they'd be stuck occupying a country with no exit strategy and enemies on all sides. In his opinion it was a disaster waiting to happen.

I totally, completely, emphatically, 100% support the idea of switching to a Nuclear economy.

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Scorpious
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America's wars

>> So: 20th century wars:

WWI: Wilson (Democrat)
WWII: FDR (Democrat)
Korea: Truman (Democrat)
Vietnam: Kennedy (Democrat)
Iraq: Bush (Republican)
The other Iraq: The other Bush (Republican)<<

I think it's a bit misleading to leave out the huge amount of 20th-century wars included here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States. (The acting president in each case is helpfully included for anyone interested--not me--in keeping count.)

Granted, some of them were pretty minor or didn't make much of a splash, but to say they didn't happen is not very rigorous.

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Iraq the neverending story

To be fair Iraq II (lets get this guy already) was a continuation of the first Gulf War. All through the 90’s (Clinton’s administration) we were fighting a low intensity war with Iraq so is it really two wars. Saddam would do something stupid or violate the cease fire or no fly zone and we would bomb something this lasted ten years.

In my humble opinion the 2003 invasion of Iraq was the right war for the wrong reasons and at the wrong time. We should have taken him down in ’91 but Bush the elder got spooked by a Shiite Iraq.

All this is a good argument for the US switching to a nuclear economy so we stop buying oil from these people and let them sort there own mess out.

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One Episode

>>>Are you sure it's all one episode, I know it was broadcast that way but was it written that way? ABC did some screwy things with this show. <<<

Yup. The series was originally intended as 3 or 4 'movies of the week' for the '78/'79 season. If ratings were bad, they'd wrap it up in the last one, if ratings were good they'd continue in that format, or as a real series (This is how 6 million dollar man, man from atlantis, fantasy island, and love boat started. It was the method of the day)

This one and "Gun on Ice Planet Zero" and (I think) 'The Living Legend' were already approved and in varying states of preproduction, and this one was in the can and done, scheduled to run as one big TV movie (Theatrical movie overseas in slightly trimmed form), followed three months later by the next one, then three months later the next one, and so on.

They were most of the way through the second TV movie when the word came down that they were going to full series. SO this was one ep, and intended as one ep from the start.

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@R3

The casino bit is original but finding a livable area where one should not be that is more than it seems is old. But I have read and seen so much sci fi it is hard to remember who stole what from each other.

Are you sure it's all one episode, I know it was broadcast that way but was it written that way? ABC did some screwy things with this show.

I guess I should watch it on hulu because I am going on memory and that is always an iffy thing to do.

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Republican Wars

>>>almost all the wars and interventions of the 20th century have been done under Democratic administrations and the Republican party for most of the 20th century has been the isolationist party arguing that most foreign bases should be closed and a defensive perimeter be setup around North America. The really ground braking arms control treaties have all been done under Republicans, Nixon with SALT and Reagan with IMF.<<<

Also, Nixon ended the Vietnam War. And Ike refused to get the US invovled in it.

Alas, I'm not entirely sure we can brag about that anymore: Bush the 1st got us involved in the 1st Iraq War, and Bush the 2nd got us involved in Iraq II: Armed and Fabulous, and Afghanistan 1 (unless you're an Afghan, in which case it's "Afghanistan II: Bigger and Deffer!") So: 20th century wars:

WWI: Wilson (Democrat)
WWII: FDR (Democrat)
Korea: Truman (Democrat)
Vietnam: Kennedy (Democrat)
Iraq: Bush (Republican)
The other Iraq: The other Bush (Republican)

1:3. If you've got a war, four out of six administrations reccomend Democrats for all your warfare needs!

Still, I'm not convinced that's a good enough average to brag about. Them Bush's kind of blew our streak.

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Republibot 3.0
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I wanna' be a fascist pig/you wanna' be a fascist pig/we wanna'

>>>190 countries on the planet. 130 countries with U.S. bases. History of illegal invasions since WWII. Doesn't America fit the Cylon metaphor a lot better? What's the last country invaded by the Soviets again? Americans don't even realise they have become a fascist state.<<<

I'm going to give you 7 out of 10 for hyperbole - I'd have given you more if your arguments were more original (For instance, you can make a much stronger argument that "American Fascism" is more economic than military: We have used our food exports and our money to cajole people into doing what we want in the past, and we've done it far, far, far more commonly than using military means. And why wouldn't we? It's far cheaper.)

I am going to have to take away at least eleven points for your lack of research and/or math skills, because those numbers simply aren't true. The Air Force has bases in 12 countries outside the us, the Army has bases in 9 foreign countries, the USMC has bases in seven, and the Navy has bases in 8. And of course a lot of these overlap (for instance, we have naval bases *AND* air force bases in Italy).

Total number of countries we have bases in: 21.

Total number of US military invasions since WWII:
- North Korea (Sanctioned by the UN)
- Vietnam (Requested by France and South Vietnam)
- Grenada
- Panama
- Iraq (Sanctioned by the UN)
- Iraq again (Supported by our allies)
- Afghanistan (Supported by pretty much everyone internationally)

Hardly illegal. A couple are questionable decisions, I'll grant you that, but none of 'em are illegal.

Please not that I'm not at all arguing with you. I'm entirely supportive of you having your own opinion, and you're welcome to express it here, that's cool. It's more effective, however, to actually know some facts (or look 'em up) rather than just speak in bumpersticker blurbs. I mean, even if you're right - you're not, but even if you are - it hurts your cause to site propaganda as fact.

The last country the Soviet Union invaded was Afghanistan. (1978)

So, anyway, you like Science Fiction at all? This is a Science Fiction site...we could talk about that...

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Spaceships to Zion

>>>Comparing Earth to Atlantis is a little unfair it's more like Zion. And if someone mentioned Zion to most people they would have to look it up to know what it was. Anyway why is a lost colony far fetched they have spaceflight and know they are not native to their worlds the idea that there are colonies in the other direction makes sense.<<<

Fair enough.

>>>I never bought the casino in the middle of nowhere that popped up in this story but it's a common trope in space opra so what are you going to do.<<<

Is it? I don't remember another casino in space thing where it turns out to be a trap.

>>The change in mood can it be more because we went from the pilot movie to the first real episode, it is normal that the show would have been tweaked they almost always do.<<

Nah, we're still well inside the first episode here. The first episode was 135 minutes running time. This whole thing is "Pilot."

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neorandomizer
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@nautilus1972

A real live lefty to argue with I’m so excited. Well anyway let me help you since you do not seem to know history. The USA has been intervening militarily in other countries since the late 1890’s. The ‘are we an empire, do we want to be one, should we be one’ is an argument that has been on going since the Spanish American War. Side note the ‘we are the new Romans’ has been an argument since the 1790’s.

Now since reality is mostly perception and most people in the late 70’s still believed we were the good guys the producers and writers of BSG meant the colonials to be a metaphor for the US. Now for most of its existence the Soviet Union fought proxy wars, supplying arms and advisors to fledgling Marxist movements and revolutions. The one time they took direct military action was the invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 and it ended badly for them with some pointing to there defeat there was the straw that broke the camel’s back helping causes the Soviet collapse.

Now one of the really funny things about this America as evil empire BS that comes from the left is almost all the wars and interventions of the 20th century have been done under Democratic administrations and the Republican party for most of the 20th century has been the isolationist party arguing that most foreign bases should be closed and a defensive perimeter be setup around North America. The really ground braking arms control treaties have all been done under Republicans, Nixon with SALT and Reagan with IMF.

I learned that you people on the left were asses when I was 7 years old with the election of 1968. With the loss of the election the Democratic party found religion and became the antiwar party for a war they started and against all sanity escalated.

nautilus1972 (not verified)
USA are the Cylons

190 countries on the planet. 130 countries with U.S. bases. History of illegal invasions since WWII. Doesn't America fit the Cylon metaphor a lot better? What's the last country invaded by the Soviets again? Americans don't even realise they have become a fascist state.

neorandomizer
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Atlantis or Atlanta

Comparing Earth to Atlantis is a little unfair it's more like Zion. And if someone mentioned Zion to most people they would have to look it up to know what it was. Anyway why is a lost colony far fetched they have spaceflight and know they are not native to their worlds the idea that there are colonies in the other direction makes sense.

I never bought the casino in the middle of nowhere that popped up in this story but it's a common trope in space opra so what are you going to do.

The change in mood can it be more because we went from the pilot movie to the first real episode, it is normal that the show would have been tweaked they almost always do.

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