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Pretentious People Refuse To Admit Things They Like Are Science Fiction

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I like science fiction, right? No big question about that. I’m an unrepentant geek, and I have been for as long as I can remember. (Though my memory isn’t quite as good as it probably would have been, had I not received so many beatings from the other kids when I was young, all of them because I was a geek. I probably had it coming to me.) The point being that I’m sort of biased towards SF the way most guys are biased towards football or NASCAR: I just love it, and there’s no real reason why.

Now, as a kid I was repeatedly told by people more venerable or simply stronger and dumber than myself that SF will rot your brain, that it’s all trash, that I was wasting my time, that it was useless stuff for zit-faced 12-year-olds, all of which is probably true. Certainly most of it is pretty embarrassing: poorly written, badly plotted, displaying a flagrant disregard for the physical laws of the universe. And that’s just the books – the TV shows and movies are vastly worse. I mean, how gay does Star Trek look? And what’s up with all those Nazi uniforms and ponchos in Star Wars? All that spandex, and that stupid little robot that goes ‘biddi biddi biddi’. Embarasing.

So while there’s plenty to legitimately complain about in all aspects of the genre, there is one central thing that I get out of it, which I cleave to: Ideas. SF is, at its root, about ideas: What if we could do this? What if we could do that? How would that affect society? What if we had to integrate aliens into human society? How does new technology affect government, law, politics, religion? What if this and what if that. That kind of thing is what keeps me coming back: I just love playing with new ideas, and nothing is as relentless about firing new ideas into your head like SF, even if many of them are stupid, or cliché, or simply badly done. My attraction to the genre is fundamentally a foppish, intellectual one, for which I deservedly got my ass kicked repeatedly as a kid.
On a seemingly-unrelated topic, I’m reading “Atlas Shrugged” by Ayn Rand right now, a book I’ve avoided for decades because I was annoyed by the pretentious people who recommended it to me over and over for the last 25 years or so. Eventually someone I didn’t find self-absorbed and reprehensible described it as “his bible,” So I thought I’d give it a shot, and sure enough, I like it.

What surprised me about the book is that it’s rather science-fictiony.

I wouldn’t say that it’s actually “Science Fiction,” but much of the plot revolves around new super-science inventions, and how they affect society and culture. There’s a super-metal that’s cheaper, lighter, and stronger than steel and just won’t wear out, and then there’s a crazy kind of motor that runs off of electrical power sucked out of the atmosphere, and I’m sure other stuff will turn up as well. These kinds of things are very definitely Science Fiction of the Victorian school. (“What if we had some kind of submarine?” or “What if we had an amazing invention that allowed us to built towers more than 12 stories tall?” etc.) The novel as a whole isn’t SF, of course, but a surprisingly large portion of it is.

Despite hundreds of annoying cloves-cigarette-smoking-patchouli-wearing types telling me to read the book over the years, and droning on incessantly about it, *NOT A ONE OF THEM* ever mentioned the SF aspects of it to me.

Why?

Because intellectuals – or at least the dishonest self-absorbed-highschool-senior-Newspaper-Staff types and the equally-self-absorbed-college-freshman types – don’t like science fiction. They find it embarrassing, immature, silly, goofy, suitable only for lowbrows, and full of spandex and annoying little biddi-biddi-biddi-bots.

Therefore, if they read something and like it, it can not be science fiction, ipso facto.

Thus 1984, Brave New World, A Clockwork Orange, Gravity’s Rainbow, Ada, Slaughterhouse Five, Player Piano, Sirens of Titan, Valis, and Atlas Shrugged are always described as “Literature,” and never SF. Despite the fact that the books are full of aliens, time travel, gee-gosh-wow gadgets that don’t (or didn’t) exist in the real world, and things that can not be considered anything other than science fictional, if you describe any of these works by that name in the presence of the pretentious types, you will invariably be subjected to a condescending lecture about how “It is not Science Fiction,” “The Author is not seriously suggesting the existence of aliens, he is simply using them as a metaphor,” “This isn’t science fiction because there are no space ships in it!” “The device of time travel was first used by Cervantes and owes more to fantasy than your silly little space movies with the monsters in them” “This isn’t science fiction because it’s really old and English” “This is important art, not your stupid little rocket ships and crap” and so on. (Those are quotes from real conversations, btw. And as far as I know, Cervantes never actually used time travel.)

God knows what these people actually think Science Fiction is like, it’s obvious they’re criticizing something they have no real exposure to. Not the kind of thing you’d expect of intellectuals, is it?

I’m not the only person to notice this, btw. Vonnegut himself commented on it a couple times, saying that when he first started he was relegated to the “Science Fiction Ghetto” because he wrote books that acknowledged technology existed and was relevant. Later on, when he wrote some books that intellectuals liked, he was suddenly transferred out of the ghetto and into the realm of “Important literature,” even though he, himself, never changed his style nor his subject matter. They just decided to call him something different to make it more palatable to themselves, but the distinction was obviously in their own heads.

This kind of makes me wonder exactly how much of the books they’re actually even understanding in the first place, given the kind of mental backflips they’re forcing themselves to do in order to avoid calling a spade a space ship. Obviously, some nuance has to be lost in all that, yeah? And they will never, never, never, never, never admit they’re wrong, ever.

Weird, huh?

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Republibot 3.0
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What is good art?

>>>I'm kinda liberal in what I consider art. Graffiti? Art. A car? Art. Mass-produced vases sold at Wal-Mart? Art. An upside-down urinal, signed "R. Mutt" by Marcel Duchamp? Art. The lights turning on and off in an empty room? Art (I kid you not, this was Martin Gage's submission that won him the 2001 Turner Prize).<<<

Yeah, I'd consider all those things art. One could argue the car isn't, since art isn't supposed to have any purpose beyond itself, but that's pretty clearly not the case. I mean, vases have a job, right? Books are to entertain and frequently educate or rabble rouse or recruit. Tapestries are to kill the echoes in castles...

>>>As for problems admitting that a book is SF, I blame poor reasoning skills ("I read a poor sci-fi book, therefore all sci-fi books are bad") and ignorance of Sturgeon's Revelation.<<<

It's no less infuriating for that, though

The Artist Formerly Known As Republibot 3.0

Republibot 3.0
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Hoity Toity

>>>I kinda went off on a tirade there, but I really hate those hoity toity intellectual types.<<<

"Come, come now, Mister Scott: Young minds, fresh ideas. Be tolerant."

Art is an attempt to convey meaning. There's a zillion ways to do it, some are deliberately negative, some are cloyingly positive, some are challenging, some are obvious, and there are some that I simply don't get. And pretty much none of it really should be paid for by taxes. But just because I don't get something doesn't mean that there isn't something there to be gotten, just I'm not seeing it, or maybe what *IS* there isn't really all that clever.

I love Salvador Dali. I know people who insist he isn't art. I don't like Marcel Duchamp, but I do recognize that his ideas are pretty clever.

Which I guess is my way of saying that I'm not intimidated by art for art's sake, nor am I the kind of guy who gets intimidated if something lacks self-conscious artifice. Really it's got nothing to do with the art itself, I think it's just the whole "Looking down on me for having the same tastes as them" thing.

The Artist Formerly Known As Republibot 3.0

Republibot 3.0
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No sir, I didn't like it

>>>R3, didn't you eventually review Atlas Shrugged for this site? And if memory serves, you weren't so positive about it in the end as you seem to have been here?--At least, if it's sci-fi, it's unabashedly right-wing..<<<

I wrote an epic (3-day) review, and ultimately I was pretty turned off by the book, which I found to be nonconservative (which isn't to say liberal), morally unsanctionable, irrationally elitist, frequently hateful, occasionally self-congratulatory about its ignorance, and shrilly Mary Sue. Also: long, but not in a good way.

I'll allow as how fiction is maybe not the best way to fully apprehend her philosophy, so maybe she had some other points stated elsewhere that would have offset this, but I certainly wouldn't consider it right wing, any more than the Germans who sacked Rome were "Right Wing."

The Artist Formerly Known As Republibot 3.0

SheldonCooper
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Art

I'm open to new ideas, but most of this new age "art" is really an excuse for people who have no artistic talent but want to be considered artists. You also have to stay true to the artform you're trying to play in. If you're painting, then paint. If you're sculpting, then sculpt. Don't just splash some random colors on a canvas and call it a masterpiece. Likewise, don't waste two and a half hours on a movie with only 15 minutes of dialogue because you're being "artistic." That's just nonsense and it'll make me look down on you. But these are my own humble prejudices against pseudo-intellectuals and they should be taken as such.

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by SheldonCooper do not necessarily reflect the views of Republibot.com, its parent company or its subsidiaries. All views expressed by this user are to be accepted as the incoherent ramblings of a madman and nothing more. Unless you agree, in which case I'm a freakin' genius.

One lab accident away from being a supervillain! Bazinga!

SheldonCooper
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Art

I'm open to new ideas, but most of this new age "art" is really an excuse for people who have no artistic talent but want to be considered artists. You also have to stay true to the artform you're trying to play in. If you're painting, then paint. If you're sculpting, then sculpt. Don't just splash some random colors on a canvas and call it a masterpiece. Likewise, don't waste two and a half hours on a movie with only 15 minutes of dialogue because you're being "artistic." That's just nonsense and it'll make me look down on you. But these are my own humble prejudices against pseudo-intellectuals and they should be taken as such.

NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by SheldonCooper do not necessarily reflect the views of Republibot.com, its parent company or its subsidiaries. All views expressed by this user are to be accepted as the incoherent ramblings of a madman and nothing more. Unless you agree, in which case I'm a freakin' genius.

One lab accident away from being a supervillain! Bazinga!

metaphizzle
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pretentious artsty types

@Sheldon: As an outsider looking in, my impression of the art world is that they're equivalent to a Star Trek fan club that's taken to holding long philosophical debates entirely in Klingon. If you understand the context they're operating from, there's insight to be found there; but to everyone outside the circle they just sound like a bunch of loonies spouting nonsense.

I'm kinda liberal in what I consider art. Graffiti? Art. A car? Art. Mass-produced vases sold at Wal-Mart? Art. An upside-down urinal, signed "R. Mutt" by Marcel Duchamp? Art. The lights turning on and off in an empty room? Art (I kid you not, this was Martin Gage's submission that won him the 2001 Turner Prize).

The real question isn't "Is it art?" The real question is "Is it good art? What is it trying to do, how well does it accomplish those goals, and why the heck should we care?"

As for problems admitting that a book is SF, I blame poor reasoning skills ("I read a poor sci-fi book, therefore all sci-fi books are bad") and ignorance of Sturgeon's Revelation.

neorandomizer
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@Scorpious

>>R3, didn't you eventually review Atlas Shrugged for this site? And if memory serves, you weren't so positive about it in the end as you seem to have been here?--At least, if it's sci-fi, it's unabashedly right-wing..<<

Atlas Shrugged has sci-fi elements in it but it's more a political manifesto than a gripping story. It is far from being right wing Ayn Rand was a atheist and said that morals stem from rational self interest.

Rand's Objectivism has ideas that are similar to Libertarian thought but I find it to be a form of absolute elitism where the individual has no obligations to the greater good or other people.

I found much of Atlas Shrugged objectionable and elitist even if I do agree with some of its critiques of liberal thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_%28Ayn_Rand%29

Note: When R3 reviewed Atlas Shrugged we ended up in a running gun fight with a Objectivist commenter.

Scorpious
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And Rand shrugged

R3, didn't you eventually review Atlas Shrugged for this site? And if memory serves, you weren't so positive about it in the end as you seem to have been here?--At least, if it's sci-fi, it's unabashedly right-wing..

SheldonCooper
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The Lazarus Pit Immersion

As this post is almost 2 years old and never generated a discussion, and as I believe it is a good topic, I shall attempt to resurrect it by commenting here.

You've got to remember that these are, for the most part, elitist liberals we're talking about here. I'm not saying there aren't elitist Republicans. There are. We call them politicians. But for whatever reason, the average liberal is more prone to be this way. They think they know everything, and they refuse to look outside of any particular box. I've never read Atlas Shrugged. Probably for the same reasons it took R3 so long to read it. Based on things you read *about* it, you're expecting artsy fartsy BS, and I have no interest in that. These pretentious artsy liberals are the same people who will look at a tree stump with a pole sticking out of it and soda cans randomly stuck to the pole with bubble gum, will try to analyze this "art" and tell you how brilliant the artist is. Sorry, Libby, but that's garbage on a tree stump. It isn't art. It isn't brilliant, it's lazy. If you want art, look up Michelangelo sometime. See David or the Pieta. Don't look at garbage and say, "what a genius" because then you just look stupid.

Sorry, I kinda went off on a tirade there, but I really hate those hoity toity intellectual types.

One lab accident away from being a supervillain! Bazinga!

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