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EPISODE REVIEW: Stargate Universe: “Subversion” (Season 1, Episode 18)

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With tonight’s episode, SGU officially becomes the best SF show on the air. I’d even go so far as to say what they did tonight is superior to anything we’re seeing out of Lost at the moment, and that’s high praise indeed. This is also the episode where “Universe” finally took it’s own place alongside the previous two Stargate shows as an equal, as opposed to the frustrating departure from form it started out as. And best of all: no musical montages tonight!

Rush is having dream/flashbacks of a time when the communication stones put him in Telford’s body back on earth. He was talking to people in a secluded location, and the people had a Goauld shuttle. Catching his reflection and realizing who he is in the memory, he immediately goes to talk to Young, who’s pretty shocked by the news.

They both realize Telford must have been a mole for the Lucien Alliance, the same group who attacked planet Icarus at the start of this series. The only question is whether or not he’s a willing spy, or a brainwashed one, since the Luciens have the technology to do that, and do it well. Prior to his asignment on Icarus, Telford spent about a year undercover infiltrating the Alliance, during which time 37 people died in a raid that he could have prevented, but he did nothing. Ultimately his actions were supported by the SGC, but they weren’t happy about it.

Rush is sent to Telford’s body the next time Telford uses the communication stones to visit the ship, figuring Telford’s body would make for a great disguise. Young doesn’t really trust Rush, and jumps back to earth as well, to inform General O’Neil about the whole situation. For all both of them know, Rush is the mole trying to frame Telford. Jack assigns Daniel Jackson (!) to shadow Rush, and once Rush manages to make contact with the Luciens, his cover is immediately blown. He’s tasered and taken aboard their shuttle, and they leave.

A Lucien lady tries to get Rush to tell who he is, saying she’s not adverse to killing Telford’s body since his cover is blown anyway and he’s of no further use. Rush tries to hold out, and lies convincingly - he’s really good at that - but she’s too experience for him. Ultimately he gives in and admits who he is, and she’s quite happy to have him on board. She takes him to an Icarus-like planet they’ve found, where they’re working on dialing the Destiny for some as-yet-unexplained purpose.

Meanwhile, on the Destiny, Young is sweating the truth out of Telford, and they even bring O’Neil in for a moment or two. Camille is not at all happy about this, and keeps trying to butt in, but she’s kept out of it. Ultimately Telford comes clean and gives a little rant about how earth is culpable for freeing billions of people from the Goauld, but giving them no means to support or defend themselves, and how the Lucien Alliance is doing what’s necessary to survive.

Young locks Telford in his cabin, and has them gradually vent the air out.
“You won’t kill me, it means you’d be killing Rush too!”
“Yes, I know, but I’m thinking of the greater good.”
The air runs out…

Oh, and there was a Baby Shower on the ship as well.

The End.

OBSERVATIONS

Man oh man, where to begin? There was just so much good stuff here. I know a lot of people have complained about the stones, and even though I understand why they were using them in the early episodes, I think they were overused as well, but lately they’ve been used to much better impact. In tonight’s episode, I think they’re about as good as it’s ever been done, here or in SG1.

Young and Telford used to be friends. The Destiny was supposed to be Telford’s reward for his undercover work, but fate intervened, and he’s pretty upset about it. He interfered with Young’s wife to get back at him, and it’s pretty much confirmed that the two of them are having an affair now. Telford didn’t file assault charges against Young for the beat down he got like ten episodes back. He says this was benevolence, but Young points out that it would be disaster for his career if the circumstances got out. By the way, much as I like Telford as a recurring villain here, it’s been a Loooooooong time since we’ve seen him - what? Twelve episodes or so? - which diminishes some of the impact here.

They make up for that in other ways, though.

Something fairly obvious to me, but not touched on in the episode is that the Lucien Alliance wants the episode, and Telford, who’s working for the alliance, was supposed to get command of it. This is clearly not a coincidence, but why? Why do they want it? What are they hoping to get from a ship a kerjillion lightyears away with no hope of getting home again? I think they know something about the ship that ‘we’ don’t know, and I wonder what it is.

It seems obvious to me that contact between the Milky Way and the Destiny will be established - albeit briefly - in the next two episodes, and I’m wondering if we’ll see any cast changes as a result. Telford, obviously, is dead meat, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if TJ leaves the show. They’re kind of setting that up already, with her concerns about child rearing on a near-derelict. I think she will leave the cast, frankly, and I assume they’ll probably bring in one or two cast members as well.

I love the SG1 quasi-cameo in this episode: We’ve got Jack and Daniel (Didn’t expect Daniel, and it’s nice to see Jack acting like Jack again), we get a name check for Carter, but where the heck is Teal’c? Did Christopher Judge put on three hundred pounds, or lose an ear or something? Seriously.

And finally we know why the fighter pilot couldn’t have been someone like Cam or Sheppard: Because he’s a bad guy, and we can’t have any of them corrupted. They’re heroes. Plus, Telford’s a wad, and neither of them would act like him. I begrudged the show not using more SG characters, but as I learn more and more why they did it, I’m happier and happier. That said, I really would like some appearances by other SG1 cast (Cam, Vala, Landry) or the SGA cast (Sheppard, Rodney, maybe Doctor Keller, though everyone besides me hates her, it seems). I realize the reason here is that SGU is trying to win back viewers who left during the Fargate/SGA years, but I don’t like pretending 60% of the SGC doesn’t exist.

That said, I doubt we’re ever going to see the Cheyenne Mountain complex again.

I’m so happy all this tied back in with the three part premier, and it’s appearing the season will have a four-part finale: this ep, the official two-parter following it, and the resolution at the start of next season. There’s a sense of completion here, and also a sense that this was all thought out, that they’re not just winging it, that there were wheels within wheels before the show began, and these characters just sort of walked into the middle of it. As far back as episode 1, Carter made reference to “Our friends in the Lucien Alliance” giving them information. That might have been a reference to old info from Telford, or some other undercover spies.

For those who wandered away before SGU started, the Lucien Alliance were a recurring villain group during the last two seasons of SG1, basically a mafia using Goauld tech. In this version of things, they’re seeming more like the IRA or PLO, or some other terrorist force that sees themselves as liberators. It’s not uncommon that such groups also sponsor organized crime to get funds and connections. In any event, the Alliance seems to be a much bigger threat than they were previously.

So why do Telford’s brain transfers leave a memory trace and no one else’s do? By the way, the scenes of Young wearing down Telford with graphic stories of the deaths of people on Icarus was pretty great.

Is it just me, or is Camille an utterly useless character? Thus far on the show she's been as duplicitous and manipulative and scheming as Rush, but she's got absolutely no useful skills or good qualities to offset her evil, and I find myself really wishing she gets off the show when TJ does. I imagine Lesbian groups are furious about her depiction, but, eh. Whatreyagonnado?

I can not *wait* to see the next two episodes!

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Republibot 3.0
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What are you apologizing for?

Tomacoon,

No, no, no, no, no, no, what are you apologizing for? Never apologize for leaving a long message. Sheesh. Have you *SEEN* my reviews? I routinely go through sixteen pages just talking about the first time I ever had Cheez Whiz. If you've actually got something to say - and obviously you do - then say it, and take as much time and space as you need. Seriously, nothing to apologize for there.

The Artist Formerly Known As Republibot 3.0

Tomacoon (not verified)
Apologies for leaving such a

Apologies for leaving such a long message.

I also enjoyed Eureka before I left and I've heard that Caprica is pretty good too.

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Just a Reminder

Just a reminder that as it's a holiday weekend, and as Syfy hates their audience with a passion, there'll be no new SGU this week.

The Artist Formerly Known As Republibot 3.0

Republibot 3.0
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SGU/BSG/Sorry for the long delay

>>>Honestly, I don't buy the idea that SGU has been bringing on SG1 characters to bring back audience....Firstly, we knew from the beginning of the season that all the episodes for this season had been written and filmed before the season began,<<<<

Yup. The thing is, the actress who plays TJ got pregnant between the time that they signed her and they started filming, so that had to be written in to the script. Not a hard thing to do. Whether she stays on or not - or whether she loses the baby or not - are up to the writers and producers.

>>>so neither was there a reason nor an opportunity for story or episodes to be changed midstream in response to ratings and, honestly, I prefer it that way.<<<

I prefer it that way, too. But I never said anything about ratings, and when you have a major real-world change in one of your major characters, you need to address it onscreen, that's all. I mean, Libby, Anna Lucia, and Eko were all intended to be on Lost for the long haul, but stuff changed behind the scenes, and - boom - they're gone.

>>>I prefer that the whole team laid out their entire story for the season themselves, and then gave it to the viewers, take it or leave it, that gives it a much better flow and internal consistency.<<<<

Totally, completely, entirely agree.

>>>One of the things I loved about BSG was that Ronald D. Moore and his team determined, from the beginning, that it was going to be a 4 season show and that's it.<<<<

That's actually not true. RDM wanted it to be a five-season show, since that's far beter for syndication purposes. Ratings started to slide in the end of season 2, and tanked in season 3, and Syfy (Then Sci-Fi) began discussing the best way of wrapping it all up with RDM. He pushed really hard with Sci-Fi (Now Syfy) to give him two more seasons - season 4 would have culminated in the discover of Earth, and season 5 would have been the alliance w/ the rebel Cylons, the final defeat of the bad Cylons, and the discovery of Our earth (Not the real one, however.) Sci-Fi/Syfy said there was no way they were plunking another $60 million into an expensive non-hit with dwindling ratings, and was no longer buzzworthy.

>>>The pacing, flow and consistency was a million times better than Lost saying that, "oh, we already have the beginning and end written, and now we're just going to stretch out the middle for a ridiculously unnecessary 7 years....which we didn't plan for". It's like taking a cut elastic and stretching it out til the middle fatigues and you have no use for it any more.<<<

Yeah, I agree with that. Lost was intended to run for five years, they stretched it out, and though they never completely lost their way, there was definitely a whole lot of pointless fumbling the ball, resulting in an irritating number of dangling plot threads, abandoned arcs, and "What the frack?" retcons.

>>>I like that the writers and producers of SGU are sticking to their guns. I just hope that SyFy doesn't screw this up..again (I'm watching the 5th season of Atlantis for the first time now and really liking it, and asking why SyFy, stupid name anyway, would cancel it when it was getting good).<<<

They shouldn't have cancelled it. Everyone was under contract for another year anyway. Partially, it seems they wanted to free up money for SGU - a much more expensive show - and partially it seems to have been a really bad business decision on the part of MGM, who thought straight-to-DVD movies would be far more profitable than they ended up being.

>>>the only things good on Syfy have been the SG series, Farscape, BSG and reruns of those and Firefly. The rest is pure crap and are like all the lowest budget horror movies that graduating film students can churn out. Granted, having been in the US Peace Corps. for the past 2 years I don't have regular access to Syfy, and would be happy to be pleasantly surprised if there are/have been new good things in the time I've been away.<<<

"Caprica" is, surprisingly, pretty good. I was all set to hate it, and it won me over. "Eureka" is occasionally amusing, but I'm not really sure if we can call that a Syfy show or a USA Network show, so it may not really count. Apart from those one-and-a-half exceptions, you're completely right.

Sorry to take so long to get back to such a long, detailed message. I've been busy working on THE BIG SECRET PROJECT since Sunday, but I'm back now.

>>>Anyway, second point, in relation to TJ's character, we can use real world cues to nip any ideas of her being written off in the bud. SGU has already been signed on for the second season and a review of imdb tells us she's in at least the first 6 episodes, so she's certainly not going out this season.<<<

She could be on a Helo Plot.

>>>Not the same with Wray, she won't be in season 2 it seems or at least not in every episode between now and then and in season 2.<<<

Gah. Spoilers, dude, spoilers! Gah.

Ok, off to play Super Mario Galaxy 2...

The Artist Formerly Known As Republibot 3.0

sysadmin 2.0
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R3's Stories

R3's stories could all be autobiographical to one degree or another as he tends to live them in his head when he's writing them. Hosing out the Republibot HQ after he wrote "Lions and Lambs" was all KINDS of fun.

neorandomizer
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Have my hopes up

aah I was hoping R3's last story was semi-autobiographical and he had the boosters(silos) all ready to go.

sysadmin 2.0
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Sorry- R3 is NOT building a rocket.

Unfortunately, (or fortunately, having had the adventure of R3 driving me around town once or twice)Moon Shots are not on our agenda yet. We need to dominate Genre Media for a couple of years first.

This will be another small step in that direction. I don't want to inflate expectations, this is something that we try to do on the site frequently... it's just turned into a five and a half feet tall stack of paper that R3 has to whip into shape.

neorandomizer
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Double secret rocket program

If R3 is building a rocket to the Moon I want a seat please get me off this rock.

sysadmin 2.0
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I didn't notice

But I'm just filling in in comment land for a bit while R3 works on a REALLY BIG SECRET PROJECT.

Thanks for pointing it out, and you could very well be correct.

Oh, and thanks for posting! Welcome aboard!

Farsquidge (not verified)
Did anyone else notice?

Did anyone else notice?
That the big male Lucian Baddie who appeared second in command to Kiva the female leader was in fact the second runner from SGA S5 Ep9 where he had kidnapped Keller to treat a young girl.

He escaped through the planets Stargate using a tranportation device worn on his arm that looked like a small rubber 'Octopus'.

I think his character name was Carek.

He was probably who Carter referred to in Ep1-2 as 'Our source in the Lucien Alliance'

Who's betting he ends up on Destiny? He would be in the middle of the Military and Public and could be a go-between or glue that brings them all together!

neorandomizer
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@Tomacoon

Welcome back to the land of the big PX. It might be that I’m ex-military (Navy) but not being told everything in real time was (is) a fact of life. Being on an attack sub we enlisted crewman would know the broad strokes of a mission but rarely the details until after the fact (if ever) true this was during the cold war back in the 70’s and 80’s. But knowing we were doing a seek and peek off the Russian coast is not the same as knowing we are doing it off their main Naval base.

The military on Destiny would be used to not being told every detail and I know that the back story with the IOA has been their complaint that they are not told everything but Camille went about the whole thing wrong. From the moment they arrived on the ship she has taken an adversarial stance with Young. That might work on Earth or on a base planet but being on Destiny is like being on an operation and only one person can have operational control on the ground. She should have tried to be more helpful to Young in handling the civilians and realize being in a survival situation might not be the best time to be agitating for democratic first principals.

Should Camille be in the command loop? Yes. Did she try to win Young’s trust which she did not have on the planet? No. Now after the mutiny Young has even less reason to trust her. She needed to help by explaining to the scientists that in an emergency the group can’t be asked for their input on every decision and most of these people have shown they do not get that being selfish is not going to work in their situation.

Tomacoon (not verified)
Honestly, I don't buy the

Honestly, I don't buy the idea that SGU has been bringing on SG1 characters to bring back audience. Nor that TJ will be written out of the show by the end of the season.

Firstly, we knew from the beginning of the season that all the episodes for this season had been written and filmed before the season began, so neither was there a reason nor an opportunity for story or episodes to be changed midstream in response to ratings and, honestly, I prefer it that way. I prefer that the whole team laid out their entire story for the season themselves, and then gave it to the viewers, take it or leave it, that gives it a much better flow and internal consistency.

One of the things I loved about BSG was that Ronald D. Moore and his team determined, from the beginning, that it was going to be a 4 season show and that's it. The pacing, flow and consistency was a million times better than Lost saying that, "oh, we already have the beginning and end written, and now we're just going to stretch out the middle for a ridiculously unnecessary 7 years....which we didn't plan for". It's like taking a cut elastic and stretching it out til the middle fatigues and you have no use for it any more. I like that the writers and producers of SGU are sticking to their guns. I just hope that SyFy doesn't screw this up..again (I'm watching the 5th season of Atlantis for the first time now and really liking it, and asking why SyFy, stupid name anyway, would cancel it when it was getting good). Frankly the only things good on Syfy have been the SG series, Farscape, BSG and reruns of those and Firefly. The rest is pure crap and are like all the lowest budget horror movies that graduating film students can churn out. Granted, having been in the US Peace Corps. for the past 2 years I don't have regular access to Syfy, and would be happy to be pleasantly surprised if there are/have been new good things in the time I've been away.

Anyway, second point, in relation to TJ's character, we can use real world cues to nip any ideas of her being written off in the bud. SGU has already been signed on for the second season and a review of imdb tells us she's in at least the first 6 episodes, so she's certainly not going out this season. Not the same with Wray, she won't be in season 2 it seems or at least not in every episode between now and then and in season 2.

Speaking of Wray, I don't think her scheming should be considered evil, misinformed and possibly misguided (due to lack of information not intelligence), but not evil. Let's look at it from her point of view, she's on Destiny representing the civilians and feels that, as the ranking IOA rep, she needs to be looking out not only for them but also for the principles that she believes in connected with her IOA work. As we have seen in the past, while we inevitably resent the IOA butting in in SG work and that their assumptions usually end up being wrong, we can understand their motivations and their position. They're a civilian body that is still trying to come to terms with the magnitude of all this space galavanting while at the same time being in the thick of the action (so largely receiving their information second hand about this thing which they are trying to wrap their heads around) AND trying to effectively represent and balance the interests and desires of the entire international community on earth.

Wray, as both the IOA and civilian rep on Destiny, feels that everyone on the ship should be kept informed about what goes on, and that secrecy isn't helping them, and we cant really blame her. In the same position as Wray, or the others not in the know on the ship (I'm talking about the stock of redshirts), we too would be pretty annoyed if kept out of the loop on important information. Remember, there's something like only 80 people on the whole ship (maybe more like 75 given losses through the season) and there's a strong argument that such a small group doesn't benefit from secrecy and division. On the other hand, that said, we can also understand Young and the military personnel's reasoning for choosing to withhold information for periods of time. But, of course, Wray can only act on the information she has, as any of us can.

Sorry, a long couple of discussions there. On other notes, I don't think we need to assume that outside forces interested in Destiny necessarily know more about it than our people. Desire or hope are strong enough motivations on their own. We can guess that the aliens know a significant amount more about the ship then us, since they've had more time to study it. But we can't assume what kind of information that is...if they cant access the ships systems, their knowledge may be limited simply to the physical (materials, layout, makeup of destiny). And it is possible they see this ship as some sort of salvation. Or even more likely, salvage, a curious piece of technology to be taking apart, studied and reverse engineered.

As for the Lucien Alliance I think its spurious to assume they know more about Destiny, as it is, know one new that what they were gating to was going to be a ship until our merry little band went there and we don't have any indication that there are records in the Milky Way about Destiny (yet, it's possible there could be something deep in the Atlantis computer or in the Antarctic outpost computer on earth).

It's clear now that the Lucien Alliance does know that what they will gate to is a ship, but we can easily explain the motivations very simply by desire, greed or hope. If Telford's characterization is accurate, that they are a desperate people (and we can see some of that for sure) then perhaps there are those among the Luciens who see salvation or hope in Destiny (whoa...do we once again stumble upon a philosophical/religious discussion of hope/salvation and destiny/future?....), then perhaps they see their future in Destiny, either in it for a new home, or information or parts to sell or reverse engineer.

Or perhaps even simpler the motivation may just be curiosity, after all all the Luciens are merely human, and curiosity is one of our most basic traits and if there's anything that this show has been talking about for a long time its about basic aspects of our humanity (which i think is one of the best SF topics), and furthermore the Lucien guy Rush talks with in the end seems genuinely curious.

Also, perhaps Telford is a genuine traitor, or perhaps he was indeed brainwashed. He could be brainwashed strongly enough to believe his story. As it is, it seems to me that residual effects of the gaould brainwashing device is the strongest explanation for why only Telford's body leaves residual memories. On the other hand, loophole?, Lt. James also received residual memories of the alien inhabiting her body...hmm...what could be the connection there?

Last thought, Dr. Brody...did he press the button to let out Telford's atmosphere because he trusts Col. Young...or does he press it because he too is a Lucien agent, realizes Telford's cover is blown and he has a perfect opportunity to tie up a loose end? He hesitance was quite convincing, but perhaps not enough...

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Old Man's War

Oh, that's hillarious. I noticed the guy was reading something, but I didn't see what it was.

One thing I really like about the Gateverse is that Science Fiction exists there. Too many SF shows operate in a vacuum. I like that Jack liked Star Trek, and that people read SF, and that some of their terminology (Away Teams, Beamed up, Cloaked) were deliberately taken from other shows, and occasionally they even mention it as such.

Ok, this is my last entry for a week or so, as I'm working on a big project. You guys all chat amongst yourselves for a bit, ok? I've been watching you and I think you're ready.

I'll be back soon...

The Artist Formerly Known As Republibot 3.0

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Book plug

Did anyone else notice that when Rush escaped his escort who was gonna sit in the car and "read my book", that the book was John Scalzi's "Old Man's War"? Scalzi is, of course, the science/creative/continuity/whatever consultant for the show and a good scifi author. I give a hearty recommendation for anyone to also read that book too. Funny that they give hime a small plug there, but you'd pretty much have to already know of it to notice it though.

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@Scorpious

I agree in a normal circumstance the military needs to be civilian controlled but Destiny is not a normal circumstance. Destiny is more like the front lines in a war and American history has shown when the civilians micromanage a military situation it becomes a cluster f@@k real quick, reference Vietnam and the Iraq occupation. In both the civilian government went beyond setting policy and the military executing it. The civilian government overrode what the military believed needed to be done and it cost lives on both sides of the conflict.

This is not about if they should have happened that is a civilian political decision but once the military is ordered in it is better to listen to what they believe needs to be done. If one is not prepared to do that then for gods sake don't choose the military option.

Destiny is under threat of attack at any moment Camille is not trained or prepared for that Young needs to be the one in command. Camille should be Young's second in everything not pertaining to security but instead of trying to get that in a reasonable way she staged a coupe supported by Rush who does not give a damn about anyone but his personal mission.

What did Camille think that a way home would magically appear if she was top dog. Most of the internal problems on Destiny have been because Camille decided to see the military and the civilians as two opposing factions instead of trying to integrate the two groups as a team. Now the only civilian fully trusted by the military is Eli, Camille and her click of scientists have burned a bridge they may live to regret is gone.

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Military

One small detail I thought was interesting was how Telford (in Rush's body) immediately asked for fatigues. I guess that's what he feels comfortable in, in the same way as Woolsey would change from his Atlantis uniform into a 3-piece suit after hours, as that's what he could relax in. Maybe clothes do make the man :-)

The military in SG has always been an extremely moral one. SG1, and, maybe to a lesser degree, the Atlantis mission have almost always done the right thing by moral standards. SG1 regularly found itself at odds with other military or governmental bodies, but they were usually uncompromising on moral issues, even exposing other political/military types who were more, I guess, hawkish.

The military being left to "clean up their own mess" is clearly a bad idea, and no military government has ever been a successful beacon of prosperity or happiness, so Camille is right to question Young's authority and to provide an oppposing view--not that her view is always or usually any wiser than his, but I certainly hope she's *not* going to get tossed out an airlock for not agreeing with Young. And Greer should have a bit more respect for her, considering what he did to her in last week's episode.

I didn't really like Young when the show was just starting, but he and Scott have grown on me. I'm still not very fond of Greer, but to his credit, he's loyal (a bit too blindly loyal, perhaps), but he doesn't really do much at all except for glare menacingly at people he doesn't like--which is most people. But I know people here seem to like him, so I'm considering dropping my hopes that they give him a noble death as soon as possible :-).

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Babies in space #2

There have been a few of those. There were some on BSG, in particular the chief's and Cully's, and of course the horrible kid who was born on ST Voyager :-(

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Babies in Space

I hope TJ doesn't get off the show. Baby in space has to happen sooner or later. It would probably be the FIRST EVER time they did it in the Stargate Series.

I don't think they've done it in SG1 or SGA.
(Taela was on a planet...so it doesn't count, has to be in space)
(Vala was also on an Ori planet, I think.)
Not many things actually do it. The ONLY example I can recall is Star Wars Episode III (kinda, Padme was on an asteroid thing, so it may still not count.)

I hope they don't change the cast that much. Maybe it will only add a few Lucien Alliance characters ( I get that they feel that they deserve to have a part in the Destiny as well, but whatever their "real" motive is, we don't really know yet. How did they expect to get back? Could Destiny find an Icarus planet?)

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Not a bad theory.

That's not a bad theory. I hadn't thought about it, but it's entirely possible that Scott and Greer were in Afghanistan or Iraq. They mentioned several times that Sheppard was in Afghanistan before he got transferred to McMurdo, and thence the Pegasus galaxy. Probably not the Telford mission, however, since that appears to have taken place 18 months earlier, and I'm pretty sure Icarus was probably Scott's first SG asignment. Definitely it was the first one for James and TJ. I doubt Young knew them before Icarus, simply because SGC officers don't seem to do much apart from SGC duty once they're recruited.

I notice that Scott, Greer, and TJ are all *extremely* protective of Young. In TJ's case, that's understandable. It seems to be reciprocal: When they all thought they were going to die in "Fire," Young made a point of telling Greer, "I know you're a good man," and Greer seemed to quietly beam at that, which tells us a lot about the both of them.

I've often wondered how that hapened, though. What made them all so close? Obviously it was like that before they ended up on Destiny.

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neorandomizer
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@R3

I had the impression that Scott and Greer knew each other from Afghanistan. In fact I had the impression that Young, Scott and Greer were in combat together someplace I assumed it was Afghanistan but it might have been the mission that Telford betrayed. That would explain why Young only let Greer and Scott know what was happening because there are others that are loyal to Young.

Just a note on an emotional level Young's reaction to and acts toward Telford are understandable. I know when I was in the Navy the idea that a shipmate was a traitor would make us want to send the guy to Davy Jone's locker tied to an anchor.

Republibot 3.0
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Scott

Scott really is wet behind the ears. He's barely 25, and he's a mere First Lieutenant. (In fact the Lucien chick specifically refers to him as such) James and TJ are second louies, (Not that TJ would be in the direct line of succession anyway) and I don't think there are any other officers aboard. Everyone else seems to be a noncom or enlisted. Scott is 2nd in commant, but I don't think either he or Young are terribly comfortable with that.

(BTW, I've received a couple emails saying that O'Neil refering to a "Corporal" was a plot hole, since the USAF doesn't have corporals - the equivalent ranks are Airman First Class and Senior Airman. That's true guys, but O'Neil jumped into a Marine. There are Marines on board - like Greer - remember?)

I doubt the gate connection will be open for long. Just long enough for them to get TJ away, introduce one or more new characters, and maybe get the Destiny some supplies, then they'll be cut off again.

(Though wouldn't it be interesting if they *COULD* establish a gate and keep it powered up! It would change the whole composition of the show. That'd be an interesting - but potentially disasterous - idea.)

The Artist Formerly Known As Republibot 3.0

neorandomizer
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Young is going to owe Rush a drink

I liked this episode but man SyFy needs to learn how to put together a teaser that does not give away a major plot element.

I do not know if I like the idea of a gate connection between Destiny and the SGC even if it’s only one way (Destiny still won’t have enough power). I am glad that Telford has turned out to be a traitor, that big of a dick just had to be evil. His justification sounds like the British traitors of the 60’s, they did it for the good of mankind because the Americans are bad people and the extra money was not shabby.

Camille is seriously stupid to get in the way of the military cleaning up there own mess; a magic airlock ride could be in her future. Scott really came off as a still wet behind the ears lieutenant there really is no other way to handle this there is just no time to be all legal and stuff with Telford and Young did get the OK from O’Neal.

All in all they did a good job with this and I hope they do not screw it up in the following episodes.

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