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BOOK REVIEW: “Legends and Lore of the Americas before 1492” by Ronald H. Fritze (1993)

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This is just a fantastic book, and I can’t say enough good things about it. It is most emphatically *not* Science Fiction, but it is - somewhat accidentally - an excellent reference for fans of the Alternate History genre. Presumably it’d be good for writers as well. It’s hard to pour through this thing and not toy with constructing some “Mighta’been” worlds. Be ye Fen or Dane, however, this is just a fascinating, smart, and endlessly neat little reference.

“Ah, but what’s it all about?”

Glad you asked: We’ve *all* heard the stories about various groups claiming to have discovered America before Columbus - the Vikings, the Irish, the Chinese are trendy at the moment, and plenty of others. This book goes through *each* pre-Columbian claim and gives the detail for and against. Generally the “Against’ outweighs the “For,” but there’s exceptions. As if this wasn’t effortlessly interesting in and of itself, the book *also* goes into the political reasons many of these claims came about in the first place. It also goes into some details about how each legend/claim/outright lie influences the others.

In form it is basically an encyclopedia of legends, voyages, maps, and noteworthy people, all arranged alphabetically. Thus you don’t have to weed through a hundred pages of Prince Maddoc of Wales to get to the good stuff about the Vikings. Likewise, if you’re just done to death with the Vikings, you can skip all that and get to Prince Henry Sinclair, the nonexistent Scotsman from Italy who was said to have discovered our fair shores.

Much of this is *extremely* arcane. For every popular story you’ve probably heard of pre-Columbian discoveries, there’s easily a half dozen more you’ve never heard of. The Welsh make a claim, the Frisians, the Italians, the Arabs, the Mongols - really - the Egyptians, you name an ethnic group, and they’re in here somewhere. The author also goes into detail about legitimate events that *didn’t* discover the new world, but which are frequently conflated with mythical events, thus muddying the water. For instance, for several years, the British were funding expeditions to find “Huy Brasil,” an island thought to exist somewhere to the west of Ireland. It didn’t exist, of course, but once a year for about a decade, ships would leave Bristol heading due west, each going a bit further than the last, attempting to find it. Being a pricey undertaking, and finding nothing, the whole enterprise was eventually abandoned. In popular mythology, however, these “Bristol Voyages” are said to have actually discovered something, which was hush-hushed for….uhm….why would you keep that secret, again?

A recurring theme in these claims is that the discoveries were kept secret. This never really made any sense, but it’s given rise to increasingly specious tautological reasoning to account for it. The most noteworthy is the now-widespread belief in “The Portuguese Policy of Secrecy.” In fact, just bring that phrase up anywhere in a conversation about Columbus, and several people will nod their heads knowingly. It’s simply taken for granted down. The author utterly takes this to task and effortlessly destroys the notion that the Portuguese government was covering discoveries up by pointing out simple facts like “They were bragging about all their discoveries along the coast of Africa.” He also points out that this is actually a political hot-button issue in Portugal itself.

Upon examination, many of these claims are pretty “Me too.” They stem from a sense of national exclusion (Such as the Afrocentrist claims about Abubakari II of Mali, which have not a shred of proof) or as an attempt to establish a prior claim in tenuous hope of gaining lands for themselves (Such as Prince Maddoc, and Henry Sinclair, both of which have likewise not a shred of proof). Others are simply people screwing around for no good reason: a dude in Tennessee who kept “Finding” Roman coins on his farm, another dude in Minnesota who “Discovered” a stone covered in Norse runes telling a cock-and-bull story about an expedition to the middle of the continent. Yet others are simple yearning, such as the Portuguese fable of Antillia.

This is a particularly fascinating one I hadn’t heard of before: When the Moors invaded Spain and Portugal in 711 AD, obviously life changed for the worse for the Christian population. Eventually a myth developed around the idea that seven bishops had escaped to the sea on the eve of invasion with their respective followers. Eventually they found an island, and set up a

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Scorpious
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I'll watch this!

"Kon-Tiki" is selected as the Norwegian entry for the Best Foreign Language Oscar at the 85th Academy Awards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki_%282012_film%29

Kevin Long
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Chinese Vikings

>>We know the Viking's were in Nova Scotia but the interesting question is were they in the Lower Forty-Eight and if so why is there no stories of them in Indian lore.<<<

The Viking's own records are fairly clear on that: there were 4 recorded expeditions, one of which found evidence of a 5th that had evidently been killed off (Wrecked longboat found in a river). The Vineland colony made a fair existence screwing over the indians in trade (The details are hilarious. I'll tell 'em if anyone's interested) until the indians attacked en masse. The Vikings had superior weapons, but the Indians outnumbered them vastly, and drove them back. They abandoned the colony. One of the Viking babies born in the new world made it back to Norway and ended up being a Bishop.

Greenland's records show that they made periodic trips to North America for lumber every few years, and I'm sure they scouted down the coast some, but the Vikings seem to have considered here more trouble than it was worth.

>>After the Viking's the next most likely is the Chinese they were sailing all over the Western Pacific to the Indian Ocean just before Columbus. It is not a stretch that they might have sailed east to see what there was to see.<<

Totally within their technological abilities, but Nova utterly took this notion to task a few years back, and devastated it. Chinese Xenophobia frequently trumps their curiosity in history.

>>The idea that the Japanese followed the current does not work by the time they reached British Columbia they have starved to death. Now it is possible that they followed the Aleutian Island chain to Alaska then down the West Coast.<<

Well, they *were* fishermen. They could have fished on the way. In any event, the chart shown in the book shows them taking the North Pacific current. The Aleutians current runs the wrong way (East to west) for that to have worked.

I'm sure many more starved en route than made it here, though.

Kevin Long
(The Artist Formerly Known as Republibot 3.0)

Mama Fisi
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Menehune

I'm continually struck by how similar certain words are in Hawaiian and in Greek, and how the traditional Hawaiian costume style looks a lot like that of ancient Greek warriors.

I have absolutely no proof of a connection, but I'm thinking of writing a story about how a group from Alexander's army kept pressing eastward and finally ended up at the Hawaiian Islands, to become the mysterious and legendary "menehune" who built the stoneworks which were in place before the Polynesians arrived there.

Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.
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neorandomizer
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My Ideas

>>Examples? It's obvious that the english Water and the german Wasser are related, no doubt there, but what are we talking about? How close?<<

very close:

"English is a West Germanic language that originated from the Anglo-Frisian dialects brought to Britain by Germanic invaders and/or settlers from various parts of what is now northwest Germany and the Netherlands. Initially, Old English was a diverse group of dialects, reflecting the varied origins of the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms of Britain. One of these dialects, Late West Saxon, eventually became predominant." - Wikipedia

We know the Viking's were in Nova Scotia but the interesting question is were they in the Lower Forty-Eight and if so why is there no stories of them in Indian lore.

After the Viking's the next most likely is the Chinese they were sailing all over the Western Pacific to the Indian Ocean just before Columbus. It is not a stretch that they might have sailed east to see what there was to see.

The idea that the Japanese followed the current does not work by the time they reached British Columbia they have starved to death. Now it is possible that they followed the Aleutian Island chain to Alaska then down the West Coast.

Republibot 4.0
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>>Native American tribes have

>>Native American tribes have words for objects similar to the names for the objects halfway around the world.<<

Examples? It's obvious that the english Water and the german Wasser are related, no doubt there, but what are we talking about? How close?

--The TV show I watched used as an example a particular type of fishing boat that was similar in style and had a very similar name, but blow me if I remember the actual word. Now I wish I'd paid closer attention to the show...it was like the Japanese and this tribe in California had a small skin canoe that was called a "yuki" or something in Japan and a "chyukki" in California. That's just an example, that's not what was actually in the program.

I think the show was titled "Who Really Discovered America?"

Mama Fisi
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King Arthur Knows...

Swallows carry coconuts.

Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.
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Kevin Long
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Eurocentrism?

>>Western ethno-centrism stedfastly insisted on Columbus being the "first" to "discover" the Americas, but that suggests that NOBODY else ever reached its shores. I find this hard to imagine. Humans like to explore and it doesn't take much to sail a little further toward the horizon every day. And a lot of artifacts probably just rotted away.<<<

Nooooooooooot assssssssss suchhhhhhhhhhh...Europe is closer to North America than Africa is. South America is closer to Africa than it is to Europe. It's easier for an European to get to North America using crap technology than it is to get to South America. If you're in way-far-north Europe, it's even closer to America since there's no point that's more than 300 miles from land of some sort. So it'd be easier for Northern Europeans to get here than Southern Europeans, and, in fact, that's exactly what we see: Vikings before Spaniards. So it's not Honkey-centrism, it's just that currents and geography make it easier to get here from, say, Norway or Spain than it is to get here from, say, Egypt, which is on the wrong side of Africa.

It's fairly easy to get from Japan to North America by riding the currents, it happens accidentally all the time, but it's next to impossible to get back. We can't really speak of "Polynesians" in the same way that we talk about Aztecs or Egyptians because they weren't a 'nation.' Polynesians in Hawaii had never heard of Easter Island, and Easter Islanders had never heard of New Zealand. There was no trade nor traffic between these places. Certainly Easter Islanders knew about South America, but "Polynesia" as a whole didn't. Likewise, some South Americans probably knew there were populated islands to the west, and there was undoubtedly some incidental contact between them. But was this meaningful? I mean, did they exchange literature and technology and religion and cooking recipes? Probably not. Both cultures were stone age, but Polynesia was considerably lower-tech than South America.

>>There are stone heads in Central America with Negroid features.<<<

Salvador Dali painted people with shelves and drawers in their heads. Greeks made statues of Centaurs and Minotaurs and various other things that never existed. People make art that looks pretty to 'em. It doesn't have to represent stuff that *is*.

>> The Polynesians cultivated a plant native to Central and South America.<<

Yeah, that's a tough one. There's also the cocoanut thing.

>>Native American tribes have words for objects similar to the names for the objects halfway around the world.<<

Examples? It's obvious that the english Water and the german Wasser are related, no doubt there, but what are we talking about? How close?

Kevin Long
(The Artist Formerly Known as Republibot 3.0)

Kevin Long
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Does He Address The Egyptian Theory?

Yes he does.

He spends a fair amount of time on Thor, actually, and distinguishes him from the whackjobs. Basically Thor proved that various things *were* possible, however that doesn't mean they happened, merely that they could have. He's also quick to cite that Thor is a "Moderate Diffusionist," and not a full-diffusionist whackjob. ("Diffusionism" being the theory that all culture and technology starts from one place only, and spreads out from there, thus if the Japanese use fire, and the Egyptians used fire, the Japanese must have learned it from the Egyptians, and so on.)

Kevin Long
(The Artist Formerly Known as Republibot 3.0)

Republibot 4.0
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Voyagers

I recently saw a television program on the subject of "who REALLY discovered America?" IT may have been based on the book you'e read, Kevin. I found it pretty interesting, because a lot of the possibilities could be true--that Polynesians explored the West Coast of the Americas, and that various African and European voyagers explored the East Coast.

Western ethno-centrism stedfastly insisted on Columbus being the "first" to "discover" the Americas, but that suggests that NOBODY else ever reached its shores. I find this hard to imagine. Humans like to explore and it doesn't take much to sail a little further toward the horizon every day. And a lot of artifacts probably just rotted away.

There are stone heads in Central America with Negroid features. The Polynesians cultivated a plant native to Central and South America. Native American tribes have words for objects similar to the names for the objects halfway around the world.

I guess stuff like that's just coincidence. ;)

Scorpious
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Pyramid builders

Does he address the Egyptian theory? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_Heyerdahl#Boats_Ra_and_Ra_II

Thor Heyerdahl's career seems to be a series of proving that something is possible only to have most of his peers continue to believe that, although possible, it didn't happen.
I first read Kon-Tiki when I was 8, and the sense of adventure was thrilling.

Jim Stiles
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Lewis and Clark

the name of the expedition was Lewis and Clark

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